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Post by Hoyas1 on Jan 23, 2012 7:14:15 GMT -5
Discussion of this topic
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Post by elrodogg on Jan 23, 2012 8:24:50 GMT -5
I vote no. The point of the game is to win. Removing wins for quality starts is like giving out participation trophies.
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Post by oozed on Jan 23, 2012 8:28:27 GMT -5
I would vote NO too. I agree w/elrodogg, but even more it completely removes the possibility for any non-starting pitcher to get this stat, and since we use closers and middle relievers, that' just makes the MR even more useless.
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Post by eulogy7 on Jan 23, 2012 10:06:24 GMT -5
Seems like we have this debate every offseason...
I'm also voting no.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2012 16:28:28 GMT -5
I agree and vote to keep wins... it requires more planning and differentiates better between SPs, since you have to consider their teams, plus I always hate when a manager pulls a SP after 5 2/3 innings or a RP allows that critical 4th run in which is charged to the SP - with wins there is less of that kind of s**t happening to fog up the category
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Post by paulzilla on Jan 23, 2012 17:01:43 GMT -5
In the words of Charlie Sheen..."winning". No vote for me too...if the issue is to limit the inequity of say Felix Hernandez being on a poor team and not getting as many wins, not sure adding QS and removing wins doesn't create the same issue and others that might be even worse...
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Post by 25alive on Jan 23, 2012 22:25:59 GMT -5
I logged on here tonight thinking yes to quality starts but the middle relief argument is compelling. Then again middle relief is a like playing poker anyway as Holds and wins for RP's are very difficult to project. If we wanted to make middle relief more valuable, K/9 should replace strikeouts. And as for the "winning" argument, it is a fairly common fact that bullpens blow it for great starters and a pitchers win-loss record is not usually the best gauge of the pitchers abilities. QS is more likely to be solely in the hands of the starting pitcher on that given night. I will have to think about this until the poll is posted.
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Post by d**nedifino on Jan 24, 2012 8:18:50 GMT -5
The “win” category has been used in fantasy baseball since the start; but a “win” in real baseball has little to do with fantasy baseball. The object of fantasy baseball is to use available data to predict an individual’s outcomes and then to buy the best individual outcomes you can at the lowest price. A real baseball “win” is far too dependent on a team’s performance rather than an individual’s performance to be an appropriate statistic when the object of our fantasy game is predicting individual outcomes. A “win” achieved by a middle reliever or a closer is completely random, unpredictable, and adds an unfair luck element to the “win” category. A fantasy team that has two starting pitchers facing each other in the same game sacrifices any chance of a “win” by one of its starters. On the hand, a “quality start” is based on individual performance. It is simply 6 innings and 3 or fewer earned runs allowed. Yes, the worst case is a less than mediocre 4.50 ERA in a single game; but the sum statistics of all “quality starts” yields an ERA of well under 3.00. We should definitely improve our fantasy game by dropping the luck based “win” category and adopting a “quality start” category.
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Post by Hoyas1 on Jan 24, 2012 8:41:42 GMT -5
I will give a few ideas here, but, there is much more evidence to back changing the "w" category to "QS" in fantasy sports.
Consider this: For all the debates against other categories, only with wins does there exist a scenario in which the player has positively zero control over his statistical outcome. Hit a home run and you've got your homer, RBI or run scored, and you've boosted your batting average. Strike a hitter out and you've got your K, as well as lowered your ERA and WHIP. Come into a "save situation," and you can earn yourself a save. Stolen bases are self-explanatory, and even if you want to make the ridiculous case that a manager could give all of his players the red light, can he really force them to listen?
But only with wins can you throw a no-hit, no-walk masterpiece, yet lose the game 1-0 if you're so unfortunate as to suffer some poorly timed errors.
How many times has your starting pitcher threw a gem. Only to see the closer blow the lead. That team comes back and wins - giving the pitcher who blew the game a WIN and the starter who pitched lights out gets you "NOTHING".
Unfortunately most people (including fantasy owners) are not willing to change even though the Win category is not a good representation of the performance of the player.
It was mentioned that taking away "W" limits middle relievers. Middle relievers have Holds as closers have Saves. Both MR and Closers normally do well in WHIP/ERA because of the limited innings pitched.
When relievers receive Wins, many times they gave up runs, but their team came back and scored again. Does that actually deserve a "W"?
Just some thoughts to think about before we vote. Just because we have always used WINS does not mean that is the best statistic to use.
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Post by mac on Jan 24, 2012 12:44:51 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of QS >W.
Rewards the Pitcher for his performance more accurately.
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Post by oozed on Jan 24, 2012 16:55:54 GMT -5
I dislike QS (limiting players' ability to get a stat...even big fat guys can (possibly) steal a base...but I don't want to take anything away from a middle reliever...My alternative...switch it to "W - L". That may not help much for whatever you're looking for, but it will certainly start penalizing players for messing up.
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Post by bigdawg94 on Jan 25, 2012 19:35:59 GMT -5
I know the polls have been posted but I wanted to put in my two cents for what it is worth. In our pitching categories, we have saves for the closers and holds for the MR, the K's-ERA-Whip is for all 3 so the W would mainly be for the starters. This is just my way of thinking but to get the best out of the starters stats we would need to switch to the QS for the examples we have already mentioned here. If the pitcher goes 6 good innings, gives up 3 runs, leaves with the lead then the MR and/or closer loses that lead the starter loses a win which he does not deserve. He does deserve a QS for pitching that well for 6 innings to that point. It does not take anything away from either MR or the closer because they did not do their job to get their stats. If the starter does not make it that long the the MR only comes in and pitches 1 or 2 innings do they really deserve a win for that. In my mind I don't think so. Just my two cents for what it is worth.
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Post by 25alive on Jan 28, 2012 12:32:21 GMT -5
Based on commentary, we have 5 people in favor of Quality Starts but only 3 votes. C'mon Guys!!!
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Post by harashil on Jan 28, 2012 15:54:55 GMT -5
I agree with the owners that want QS vs Wins. I think QS is a better catagory for starters. A releiver can throw a few pitches and pick up a win. No skill there. However a SP can go several innings and pitch lights out and the bull pin blows the game. The SP has nothing to show for his performance.
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